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Travel Earth's Digital Influencers' Convention and Earthy Awards 2019- Panel Discussion 2



with Malaysian Airlines and from there we had a lot of careers from Korea these are the Asiana Airlines and Korean Air and all the low-cost carriers flown into Kota Kinabalu so our partners is basically to work very closely with the airlines and as of today from two flights we are now flying 37 flights per week into Kota Kinabalu before let me talk and he's from make my trip so for those of you who not from India you may not have heard of them till now but they are I think the largest OTA in India a little similar to see trip and I think sea trip has an investment in them as well so they're massive so if you want to be seen in India in the travel space you have to have a relationship with make my trip so with that gromek what's your favorite camping all right so I think I'll take in too so lastly I think whenever we think about I think what we need to do from an I mean marketing perspective we broadly classified into three main buckets one is awareness right are we just talking about brand awareness which is make my trip as a brand in the Indian market so we largely operate in the India market so we feed awareness very differently from let's say new product introduction which is the product trial and third is basically performance marketing so typically I think every company I mean if I talk about Indian market I mean majority of your spends go into performance marketing which is which will be a 60 or 70 percent of your money goes into performance marketing then 20 rest goes into brand right and in between your tactical stuff where you want to do new product introductions that is the third piece right so lastly I'll talk about two campaigns so a success story is let's say recently we did so we are now focusing on alternate accommodations right which is your hostels villas apartments right so we did one campaign this falls into the middle bucket which is a new product trial bucket so what we did specially in this we kind of run this campaign on our social channels right so we try to reach our because we were not either introducing a new brand so because brand is make my trip so we didn't do awareness but what we wanted to let people know about is a new product category so that people can do a trial about it right so what we wanted to do is that somebody showcasing the experience of the properties so that a person gets to know this is an alternate way for me to take an accommodation so we adopted social as a platform where we kind of partnered with influencers to kind of speak about the property right so that they can their their base or make might have space on social get to understand the property now what I'm not sure about so the campaign was successful but we hope that we see the impact in coming time because this is not a tactical campaign that we see bookings day day after right similarly a non successful example I would say that I mean almost three years back we did one brand campaign which was falling into the first bucket which is awareness right so every year we probably do one or two bigger brand campaigns to build make my trip brand recall which I mean in from brand metric perspective you track your recall in the market or top of the mind recall in in your dipstick studies that you do so for that what we tried for in one of the campaigns is let's just not do very performance oriented brand campaigns let's just not talk about hotel let's just not talk about flight because we are a flight hotel holiday all all different businesses selling company so let's just try in one of the campaigns where we talk about travel in German right when we talk about where let's just try to inspire people to travel right so what we did it was a very nice visually storytelling campaign where I mean in the starting of family is taking or taking a trip in a lake or in a boat then a man is taking his older mother to a trip in the hills so it was a very nicely put up narratively done story but while everyone liked the campaign right but it did not deliver on the metrics right so if you think about whether it was good video whether it was a good cinematography film yes but did it deliver on the metrics probably no right so that is why I have putting it into the second bucket which we think they're not deliver on the right matrix you know everybody likes to talk about the success stories but the next question is about if you had a magic wand and you could kind of change an obstacle to your success what would it be would it be your boss would it be your budget who wants to go first show of hands how many of you would like to teach your boss to do things better boss is a major stumbling block to your success agreed yeah okay how many of you think budget is a major stumbling block to your success know how many of you think agent C's are a major stumbling block to your success don't be scared we're not video okay we are videotaping this okay from my panelists what are you if you had a magic wand what would you make to go away could we switch off the cameras for a bit I think Humphrey should take this first popular demand abracadabra we want 500 million 2.6 million oh wow nice figure is that your team the ones who put up their hand about the boss how hard everybody's loving I think lastly it's about maybe 20 percent budget nobody keeps a track on the ROI of that maybe I think I would want that maybe I think probably we will get a better long-term we can do a lot of trials and testing with that budget but eventually maybe we'll get something out of it but if you kind of only do it ninety-eight percent of the budget to your core KPIs and two percent trial I don't think nothing much happens I hope the camera is not on but I'm gonna touch into something really well when has these amazing censored for Malaysia Airlines I think you know who don't know about the airline you know especially for Malaysian is true to our heart we have been around for more than 40 years I think we were once the most successful airline in the travel industry or aviation but unfortunately has passed time have passed more Airlines came into the picture I can even say you example I was given by my CEO the even Singapore Airlines and those big airlines out there come to us to learn from us whether it's cabin crew training or engineering training they all come to us but unfortunately the past two incidents into a one fall has caused us tremendous drop in terms of brand there's no closure we are still suffering from it whenever anniversary happen it does make us feel really sad as a company and also as a brand out there because every time when it's close to the anniversary of a sentiment social sentiment always spiked really high in terms of negative sentiments so to review the brand is gonna be tough especially for the market like China market like Australia there is very close to this incidence so if I have a one I would definitely ask for this to have a closure so that we can rebuild a brand and fly as high as we can that's what I would do I love the honesty and yeah absolutely I think all of us would love closure for that it's you know still very strong in everyone's mind I won't be as I don't have a tragic story to fall back on but bear with me on this what what I would really like to change is a lot of these social media network or platforms if you will they are giving out an immense amount of data which is absolutely useless and I'm saying this because I don't know how to prove this to you but I was one of the first people to actually start using Facebook I've started when it actually launched I knew what it was I've seen its evolution I've used stuff like Orkut I don't know how many people even know what Orkut is yeah like three family used it all of us dinosaurs yeah so if if you want to be known as young please do not put up your hands on this question but but my point here is there's just so much useless data that is going around which doesn't guide the brand in any manner whatsoever so I would like to clean up that space to offer data that actually matters that actually makes sense to to companies like us where we can make better strategic decisions on where our revenue is spent and how things are utilized I would just like to add one point of this I think that's a very pertinent point I think overall I think it would be a Magic Man I think for all the market ears if you can effectively measure whatever engagement you are doing with let's say either influencers or let's say you are doing with or let's say you're spending money on social in a lot of your awareness campaigns if you can actually measure it I think it's a huge boost to over all the money you're spending on social or the money you're spending in your engagement initiatives I think because of the lack in those measurements companies don't are not able to spend beyond a point so let me you know phrase that question a little differently which is your favorite channel what's working for you in terms of meeting your expectations so for us I mean brand marketing works which is our TV because a large part of India I mean the TV penetration except Metro's is still very high apart from that I mean credit does not mean that you do not invest in the newer channels but those are the bread-and-butter channels what about you syrup you hate or could the dinosaur for channels that work for me for social media and I'd sing any channel would you like to spend your money what Ramat mentioned so Google but I would add into that mix neighbor which dominates the Korean market I do for obvious reasons for all those who do not know Google does not work in China nor does Facebook YouTube Twitter etcetera etcetera the list goes on so trying to tap into markets like these you just have to be aware of of certain core as Ramat mentioned bread-and-butter channels so when your base is solid and your cash flow is maintained then you can take the risk of trying to do a let's say what part I mentioned before is not here with us right now but but being consistently quirky so for the me to be consistently quirky I have to make sure that my cash flow and my bread-and-butter channels are maintained so the channels that I would use Google neighbor etc but on on in on social media I would spend my money Facebook and and LinkedIn not so much on Instagram honest with the fact that Malaysia Airlines unfortunately if you want the question/answer it's basically digital channels and social channels because this is that year-round for immediate engagement you know even performance it's all measurable 2d geo platforms but if you notice in some markets might have different penetration in terms of platforms or channels like in India traditional platforms are still very strong like your you know our home travel agents are still very strong in Australia as well newspaper radio quite strong in in the market as well of course digital will platforms will cover the most in terms of our marketing spend at least 70% of our span will go into the Geo platform but I will always get a 30% of it into traditional channels as well not TV channels if I have more budget of course we will go to the TV channel but digital our home newspaper and radio is still a channel that we will still go into especially when for tactical if you if the Malaysian here you will know the primetime is still the the highest awareness for the brand especially for campaigns while I would say you know it will be more than your channels but I'm giving a chance that the traditional channels might come back up again especially for our home and newspaper they will find a way is the person from Hindu here is very positive news as well for him can I add yes basically when when we the government in 2015 we were we were instructed to cut our budget and before that we were attending trade shows the usual traditional methods of attending trade shows with our own booth with chair to face the customers may be B to C or B to B now that's the traditional method but when we were asked to cut our budget in 2015 guess what we can't travel so what we had to do was to to do work smartly through social media and campaigns and even invited a lot of bloggers and guess what happened that year our arrivals broke record arrivals things happen for a reason and it happened and that from that time onwards we started to increase our budget for digital promotion social media working out with bloggers to come to Sabah and when I was asked to take care of India market India is so huge with 1.3 billion population in India it is such a huge country and it's so many states to work in and it was so difficult and I told myself and with my management I said if we do one femto which which contains around 10 to 16 packs maybe bloggers or two Asian can you imagine how long it's gonna take me to bring everybody or even to create awareness on Sabah it's gonna take a long time so when I met our own or travel earth we discuss and chat about how to start off promoting Sabah so Erin said you have to do a big bang in a market and one of the best way is the convention and this convention has not been very easy because we had challenge huge challenges ahead and many sponsors wasn't very sure whether it will work so we had to explain to them how to work together working as a team with everybody was so important and the digital campaign as I can see a lot of awareness on Sabah and since we don't have direct flights from India to Kota Kinabalu yet awareness campaign is so important so please whoever out there who are not into digital campaign and if I had a magic one I would like to have those above 40 to think millennial okay as you also all earlier the arrivals the largest portion of the group are the millennial group the 21 to 39 the other largest which contributes around 59 percent of our millennial arrivals into Sabah so those are the focus we need to come in thank you getting applause fat so I'm actually um you know we've talked a little bit about the vernacular search engines and Korea specific China specific India specific quick question to the audience how many of you blog in a non-english language one hand interesting sorry which language hello yeah I blog in English as well as Malayalam Oh bilingual okay question for the marketers here how many of you you know have ads in non-english we may need language male Chinese anything just wandering the audience as well okay I'm not seeing any hands this is interesting because generally speaking in India if you want to capture the market there are eight or languages that you have to go into which will then give you a coverage of what 80% of India but if you stick to English then maybe you're reaching about 20% of the audience at best and even that 20% may not truly understand what you said they just have a general you know understanding of it so that's actually my next question to you all I mean do you see non English media as the next big thing anyone can go yeah so one of the first things that when I came into supper I did was to try and understand who our audiences were so when we understand who our audiences where we understand where they come from and when you do that you understand what language is they aren't comfortable in so if you I don't know how many of you have had a chance to walk around the resort and for all those who are staying here you'll see step by step we are moving towards this so what we are doing essentially is offering not only the signage is and and the communication pieces that are available in in Chinese Korean and Japanese we will later down the line also include Russian so these are some of the markets that we see people coming in from so for us to well advertise in a different language is very important but the experience itself when you come to this resort and you come here as a non-english speaker can you imagine how difficult that I myself when I first before I came to Sabah I used to work in China and I worked there for a very long time when I first started there I did not know a single word of Chinese just for an example I I went to a smaller store and and I wanted to buy a bottle of water for all those who speak Chinese I will tell you what I bought instead the packaging was very similar to a to a plastic mineral water bottle I went home I bought that thing and and it was for five or six ringgit which I thought was a very high cost for a bottle of water and this is about seven years back I went to my place that I was staying opened the bottle put it in a glass and took a swig and when I did that my entire throat till my stomach was on fire what I had bought who was by do by Joe literally translates to rice wine so as a non-english speaker non Chinese speaker the amount of difficulty that I faced as a in my day-to-day life that is that is where my my direction comes from to try and understand what what what an audience or a person or a guest who comes here what would they like to see what is the information that they need to make their holiday a real holiday and not a nightmare so I want to be like the name rasa ria and for all those who don't know rasa ria means experience happiness so that's what i would like to provide to let them experience happiness we create holidays we create memories we don't want to create nightmares so yeah so essentially not only advertising but also closing the loop in experience is very important so for for companies like mine I don't know how it would work with an OTA but certainly for Humphrey in many languages yeah so for Humphrey and I and for for TJ it would not only mean advertising in that particular language but also being focused on providing that sort of experience when when it comes to on the ground so whether you can you paint envy chat pay which which I'd pay available because it's it's certainly the very large market for paying can you pay in samsung pay so all you pay so making sure all of these little little experiences are present really goes a long way we were talking about this earlier to have a ten year old daughter and she actually loves airline food but the reason is because she gets a child meal which always comes with you know an exciting bag or a gift or something and it comes usually with a KitKat chocolate so that's important but the thing that started happening now is that she doesn't actually eat that meal she eats my meal and that's because you know the Asian airlines like to add the local flavor so there's usually a Ribena then there is a like oh you know rice cake of some sort but as when she says child means she's hoping that she's gonna get mac and cheese and a chocolate bar and you know I understand the local flavor but then when you're getting you know European tourists indian tourists we don't understand this child meal and the whole point of child meal was to give the child a familiar meal that it'll eat quietly and go to sleep so now what's happening is I'm eating all of that and she's eating my nice you know Asian but that's actually what you know when we say when I kill a language it isn't just the language it is the whole experience that people are hoping for and even options which don't exist today like vegan or vegetarian if I want my whole experience to be vegan everybody has to think a little differently because it's really hard to deliver that and I speak from experience we have someone in our family was in PETA so they have vegan and gluten-free and you're like okay why don't you just pack your lunch and come because I have nothing in my house but you know over to you guys how are you handling this you know the fact that there's a lot of diversity in the markets not just language I mean especially in India market if you see I mean it's generally we call it India but I mean it's India it's 29 states over all right and even if you just start dividing people into different kind of the languages they speak the cultures they have I mean it would be more than hundred different gods of users that you would need to think differently before you even start thinking about how do I need to target them right so on vernacular specifically yes we have tried from marketing side as well we tried reaching out to the non native languages so there is an acceptability in certain states there's acceptability is very high where people are very much closely attached to their native local language than English or in thee right so we see acceptability and even I mean in that trip experience as well right so there are certain certain areas where if you try speaking in English or if you try speaking in Hindi the local population I think doesn't respond very nicely right so we have to even take care of the experiences of people when they visit those places the tour guides that you have you need to make sure that people understand those sensitivities right that you need to speak a certain language and you don't need to hurt the sentiments of people around so all those things you need to take care to kind of build an end-to-end good experience for the user while the person is on a holiday so all of that matters a lot I mean it includes a language it includes your cultural it includes your ethnicity it includes your diverse cultures so I mean it's a mix of all of these that we need to take care yeah to to align or travel industry I think customer experience is very important this is my experience as a traveler when I was travelling to us I probably six seven years ago I was going to retail all that and of course my face look like a Chinese right so very nice looking nice girl came to me and I speak to me in Mandarin asking me what can I do for you in China Chinese so I told her I'm not from China I'm from Malaysia then she moved away and she didn't come back and entertain me anymore so so yeah in many years you see in u.s. or in those retail outlets they really know the influx of China travelers and you know they have shitload of money sorry so so yeah they are really preparing the customer experience to the China travelers already and they are out there to serve them and yes of course they would spend more than all of us so yeah that's that's a customer experience for us like in the airline what we are doing is recently we we have our caterer to relook at the Indian routes Muse to improve to cater to Indian travelers so of course they didn't call me because I'm not Indian to do the food tasting they call some of our Indian colleagues to attend a food tasting so in the airline industry we are doing ways to improve the experiences away whether it's muse is other experiences that we offer through the NI we are doing that to cater to our different target audience as well so that's what we're doing in the customer experience wise in terms of the advertising wise we we experienced one incident we were doing a digital campaign a performant campaign tactical we did an in English to serve Thai market and this was targeted we it was targeted to the 45 and above because it's a front and tactical campaign so we did in English expecting the businessman or the wealthy man able to read English but it was so bad we wasted like a couple of five figures of investment in performin buying and then we realized that it's a language issue even though they are the rich and businessman they still read Indian language doesn't mean that they don't know English but they are more comfortable reading in their own language so then we realize and we have to switch the campaign visual and messaging and we saw the increase of clicks and conversion so yes it does matter to cater to the different languages or the different target audience as well can I have a question to the audience I'm so sorry for you not being able to taste the Indian food you you're welcome to a restaurant we have a great and generous thank you so I have a question because I only one hand went up saying that you know we blog outside of English what's the how many of you think that it's important that all content now is available in more than one language okay this audience doesn't raise its hand for anything if I asked a question like how many of you beat your spouse no answers there either yeah it's a quick question for the audience is do you have any questions for the panel before we move to the next section questions or comments as well how many of you totally agree with everything that has been said on stage if your hand doesn't go up I'm gonna point to you and say hey tell me what you disagree with I think you need to ask that table they're very noisy yeah okay let's pass the mic to the noisy table noisy table please put up your hands so them I can find you as a Mike Reiss you guys can I see table any questions there's a question in front as well please okay pass no no no no that table has to ask the question as well yes go ahead I'm actually on Team Humphrey but then this question is posed to the other three from the LM perspective hotel as well as the OTA so all of us engage influences how do you all select your influences I don't know about the rest of you but I'm very data-driven while I do certainly trust my gut and I'd like to believe that my gut is is is is right most on most incidences but I I certainly do a very deep dive on on blogs and and influencers so we use certain tools the social crater there are other tools that are available in the market for me it's very important to understand not sure not just your following but how you engage with your consumers or your followers rather we're discussing this earlier and and we found we agree on certain points is that a lot of a lot of people do put up nice pictures of let's say the new pumps that come out from Nike that are priced that let's say twenty thousand odd rupees which which about five six hundred or about eight hundred ringgit Morrison more or less you will have a lot of likes of you sporting those shoes not necessarily people going to go and buy those shoes there are a couple of reasons for that one not everybody has the money to do so first and foremost secondly not everything that you put up and that's that's why my wave where I borrow from your from your from your presentation yesterday curators not everybody is an influencer so while you'd certainly like to believe that we can change opinions trust me a lot of us cannot we cannot change our own habits let alone other people's opinions so we have to really take a very deep dive into understanding how your audience engages with you and when we engage with influencers we try and measure it not only with engagement what with with how the revenue drives conversions drive revenue so if we have a campaign ongoing campaign we will try and loop in Kol stew to supplement that campaign not necessarily go out on its own and shrine and and hope let me get conversions it's a very crowded marketplace so it's very important for marketers to to look into and trust that data see others I'm actually going to ask you a different question which is how do you actually use influencers and curators in your marketing campaigns but is there any other question not related to influencer marketing at this point I see a hand to hands at the back if we could get the mic this is not related to influencer marketing is regarding the since we are targeting Indian market correct so is there any plan for recruiting or student exchange program from India to mu-2 Sabha or to Malaysia in order for us to have internships from India to capture the hotels and service okay the problem currently is the Indian market still has not matured for us Sabah now the arrivals of Indians into Malaysia last year was 590,000 the year before they were hitting 800 okay and into Sabah as you saw my figures earlier is only five hundred five thousand six hundred and six arrival last year okay it's so different compared to the amount of arrivals into Malaysia now we cannot do focus marketing we can't do even specific program yet because at the moment in time we are just creating awareness into Sabah now after the awareness has reached to people in India and the numbers start growing and when Malaysian Airlines start to fly into Sabah you know we will see more people coming in here then we can start focusing the largest numbers of arrival into Sabah as you all know at the Chinese market and they're huge in numbers and today from China into Kota Kinabalu is hundred and six flights per week okay one hundred and six flights per week and international flight is two hundred and six flights a week so that when the market starts maturing then we can start going into category marketing and of course student as well into Sabah but as of now is just very general marketing in to India market thank you just one sec there's one more question at the back as well yeah yeah then you can answer that one actually observation not a question you are asking about why there isn't any bloggers from vernacular languages right I mean this is more to that if you really want to reach out your large non-english audience I would think radio is a very good means to do it in India wherever I've traveled in India I find radio really reaching out then of course the big ticket investment would be a cinema get a film shot here and that's it yeah you have people coming all over but radio is the low-cost way to reach the large audiences there it really is engaging that's actually a great suggestion because I went for the tours with Bonilla tours and my guides were so you know when is shadowkhan coming here and it why is Erica not coming here do you think you could get him to shoot a movie here it was all about that and he actually wanted to go to Bombay until I told him that our movie stars don't just walk out the door and shake hands with anybody so he's very disappointed but the thing is that he actually spoke Hindi as well purely because of the movies so that's like great low cost marketing but we're kind of at the end of time so I'm going to ask this question of how do you actually you know integrate influencers if you do in your marketing campaigns I mean like I said next thing you should do is to approach the next upcoming movies and ask them to shoot Wow look at the clap of hands so can we change the hashtag can we change the hashtag from why not Sabha – why not Sabha Shahrukh Khan no we should all tweak to Shahrukh Khan and see come to suffer for your next movie 100 tweets and he will come and same basis research so jokes apart this is actually the recent research that we did that how do people figure out the destinations on where to go from where do they get the because for a lot of people in India is the aspiration to travel internationally for some people they are already travelling right they will figure out unexplored places prefer a lot of people in India is an aspiration to travel gloopy and a major channel for them to get that aspiration is Indian movies like when they see that my star has gone there and if it is affordable for them they pick the destinations basis them what the stars are covering in the movies around about a year ago event team came to us that saying that a1 has to come in to partnership with them to bring in Salman Khan which has really strong followers as any dance and his huge muscular so intense I know I didn't meet him but all the girls were excited everyone will ask you go in say okay I will do that but unfortunately last minute he has to cancel his trip here because he was here for a concert yeah but I know how you all feel to bring stars in here so next time and I have a opportunity I'll get Humphrey to sponsor as well Wow so coming back away from Salman Khan and Shahrukh Khan how do we actually incorporate influencers and curators and endorses into your marketing campaign so I think lastly so one is so I briefly covered it yesterday as well so it's about which classified one is marketing campaign other is the good content right so talking about the marketing campaign it's pretty much about I mean how do we figure out is it is by objective right what is the objective we are looking to solve for and accordingly we basically select that who is the right influence of others that what does that influence our stand for right what is the kind of content that influence a post right what is the kind of engagement what is the kind of comments which the person is posting like does the influence of stand for giving nice shots about a place right does the influence of stands for let's say giving some tips about a particular place that what it should do does the influence of stand about putting up a lot of stuff on unexplored stuff right or does the influence and let's sages talk about a good itenary about a particular place right and similarly what is the what are the kind of places the person has traveled to and then after that once you figure out that what that person stands for then you get into more metric driven stuff which so I have also talked about which is what is engagement rate what is the what is the genuine follow rates and then accordingly you pick basis the amount of reach that you are looking to do because for everything that you do marketing for any campaign you start with that what is the overall reach that I am looking to target right now accordingly then you will select that which are the influences we should work with where is the right match plus the amount of reach that we would need from from them accordingly we pick those influences so one question which I know a lot of you know audience would like to ask but haven't do you pay these influencers as part of your campaign of course yeah how do you use influencers as part of the campaign just more of a fam to Kota Kinabalu to spread the words and we do quite a lot of tactical campaign with major wholesalers that promotes Sabah so those are more effective for us and for awareness and branding that comes together with our communication with all the influences casaba so as of now this is actually one of the main campaign that we working with yep so we're looking forward to the results in which travel earth will compile and show us later on great to answer the question definitely we do use influences I'm lucky because we have a social agency to help me to evaluate influences but I think the tricky things in getting influences into marketing or branding campaign is basically looking at three areas which is relevance reach and also resume those are relevance is to see whether this influence is relevant to our brand strategy where are the audiences are you know fit to be the right audience for us or not and Reach is also based on you know how many followers they have so that would be second point that we will look into where we evaluate influencer and lastly is how the influencer will resonate to their audiences the engagement rate you know in order to evaluate is it effectively you know to use them for our campaign that's what we're gonna evaluate on of course to answer we do pay them sometimes we butter off with articles just to give them the you know experience to travel as well so we've currently not explored the market of paying bloggers who write about us or or promoters we however do support and and partner with a number of influencers who match the USPS of what what does this hotel stands for and what the brand stands for we do offer our premier services to them and a lot of activities that are on the house so it's also a brand cost because you put a lot of manpower and resources behind this so I wouldn't necessarily say that it's not paying because it's covering a large part of the traveler budget staying in a five-star hotel like we all know is not necessarily cheap apart from the fact that it offers a range of services that that we provide so while I'm not saying that that they should be grateful for all of this that I'm providing this is certainly has a certain cost value to it so I wouldn't say it's how do you actually incorporate that into the campaign I mean are they a separate channel for you or is it run as part of something else so what I talked to you about earlier and and well to this audience was was trying to identify geo market segments so if there are kos let's say from a market that is well I wouldn't ignore a guess that comes from the far north of course not but is that something that I'm actively looking at if I'm not I will shy away from trying to host an influencer that that caters to that particular market segment I will try and identify my own market segments that I am pushing for so so China for instance or India for instance now I will engage with them more than I would with influences that are not from that particular geo segment for me and is this your individual roster or is it a shangri-la corporate roster shangri-la as a brand certainly provides us a brand guideline and a brand voice that allows us to to move forward in a certain direction however it's it's it's also up to the resorts to try and and and reach out or utilize all the all the resources they have to to cater to certain particular segments because if if our HQ for in our instance is based in in Hong Kong it doesn't necessarily mean that a hotel let's say the shard London has to follow those sort of corporate policies because it will certainly not work for them because they're they're they're arrivals and their guests experiences are completely different from it while they are certainly shangri-la they're strictly on influences and how do you engage with brands again I'm gonna ask the question is everybody totally happy with the way things are and you know how to do it because when you have tea you hear a totally different conversation outside which didn't sound like you know everything is perfect so this is your chance to have a discussion and maybe shape views yes yesterday's we will have Ingram to find something to short around noon Anju I mean Russell please because the beaches and we we go to surrounding and I noticed one things if we could hire a person who actually came Lisa because I saw some tourism there's a little boy into the swimming pool and everybody's was just surrounding in every stuff wow they are not scurrying about it they almost want to call it if this one and catch it okay sorry so I might see so things that look dangerous but yet it creates some experiences that's the one you're looking for that's her in-house ambassador is it that Lisa is natural or you just planned well so that's an interesting question but let me try and answer this as succinctly as I can when you look at Rosario do not look at only the property what I mean by property is is the four or five hundred rooms that we have also look at the Nature Reserve behind that is also part of rasa ria so all the all the creatures that thrive are a part of rasa ria this is why when I answered your question earlier it is shangri-la but it is also rasa ria that is what separates us apart we are sustainable luxury we are very proud of a forest we are very proud of the flora and fauna that thrive in it and we certainly take a lot of care and attention to make sure that they continue to thrive and and this is the reason why people a lot of people come to us area and a lot of people do come to Sabah for a natural beauty right so I I don't think many of you would disagree on this fact that Sabah certainly stands out amongst all many places in the world Forester natural beauty so yeah that resident ambassador is not being placed it lives there thanks so much and I think you you don't capture the essence of silver and I hope that we somewhat captured the essence of travel marketing and with that we're done thank you so much and any questions we can discuss outside as well thank you so much thank you thank you thank you another very enriching fan

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